Costs

Unfortunately starting in the New Year, our costs will go up. Please contact nathan for updated costs.

Picnic Photos & Details

The picnic date took place on August 17, 2019 from 12pm to 5pm at Yvonne's place in Brighton. Check out the details here. Photos from the 2019 picnic can be found here. Yvonne's place is NEXT DOOR to her old place. I will try to put a havanese flag out front. Hope you can join us. Directions are here. The house # is 25. There is no picnic in 2020 due to COVID but hopefully in 2021. Stay Tuned!

Grooming 101

Want to see how I get a smooth coat and what equipment I use? I am continually learning and perfecting but I created this video Windows version) and for you Mac apple folks - here's a conversion. - not a professional one, to help you get a head start and perfect your own skill. Got questions? Ask away.

Want to know how to create a bathing machine that will save you time, product and wash your dog better than ever before? Check out Dick and Irma's instructions on how to create your own machine for a fraction of the cost.

Woofstock Is Back

Meet us at Woofstock. Dogs are welcomed. We meet at the restaurant across the street from Woodbine Park. Here is the location. Meet up happens on June 22, 2024 at 9:30 to 945am. Rain date is the next day. Look forward to seeing your havanese there and the humans too! Don't have your havanese yet? Well join us anyway! 

Award Photos
Blog Archive
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Certified Pet First Aid

Walks 'N' Wags Pet First Aid is a recognized National Pet First Aid Certificate course for dog and cat professionals and pet owners. Talemaker Havanese now has that certificate having taken and passed the course.

Entries in rockhurst Abigail at talemaker (215)

Thursday
May222008

Abs Gets Washed & Class Update

Something about the Abs. She has a real zest for life. I finished blow drying her to get her ready for a show tomorrow when in reality, I should have just got up at 4am and washed her then.

Here she is 5 minutes after getting off the table and her face is wet. She's smooshed her head into her bed and chased Katsuro around and almost caught his back end. They run SO fast. Here's for cleaning her up early tomorrow and learning my lesson. Oh - she's not bad but this is only 5 minutes past the time of being done. hehehe

Nathan just got in with Fiona and he says everyone did really well in class. Teddy wasn't there this week as she is in a trial, I believe with one of her dogs but we will all see her next week.

It does my heart good to hear how the dogs are doing.

More tomorrow!

Thursday
May222008

To Wash or Not to Wash

Look at this photo of Fiona and her grandma, Risa.

Fiona is already for obedience school with hair back in a band. Nathan and Fiona just got picked up by Coach's parents. It's class time and now to decide - pack for tomorrow for the show or wash Miss Abs or?

More later after Fiona's class when we hear how everyone did and maybe a report that the Abs is sparkling clean. Last time I washed her too early, she romped with Zack and I had to wash her twice.

Thursday
May222008

Idol, Havanese & Stylin'

Today, Wasabi needed a bath. it's been too long - that I don't want to say but she stays clean longer than all the rest. She's not crazy about the hair blowing in her face and that's why her face looks like that but I let the face partially air dry. Her hair feels so amazing now that I wonder why I didn't do it earlier.

Fiona hung out with the Wasabi while she got blow dried thinking I may drop a treat or two on her. I give the dogs a few treat during the process to make it more enjoyable but only when they are doing what I want. It all works.

We went to handling class last night and one lady started fighting with another saying her dog was too close to hers - yikes. Well - let's say - life is too short and we left but the term chill came to mind. Life is never dull in the dog world. ROFL

Well, Miss Fiona is going to obedience classes tonight. Miss Abs gets to stay home with me and get washed and blow dried so all she needs is a touch up in the morning then its off to the show so she can strut her stuff next to the Lola.

Nathan is out trying to support this crazy dog world and will be out at class tonight - asking me last moment what he should wear and hoping but asking 5 ways to Sunday if I have everything packed. Will I forget something? Time will tell.

Wish us luck. I will be filming. More later>>

PS: 'Idol' coverage is over so human mom gets to sleep earlier in the eve and that means more than 4 hours sleep. The best David DID win. ;-) ZZ Top and Cook - what a hoot! He could tour with them and hold them up so they don't fall down. ha!!

Tuesday
May202008

Rain, Dandelions & Handling Class

We were at handling class and it was spitting rain, cold and dandelions up so high and grass as well that - well they say a dog has to get used to it as they don't always mow the grounds on outside shows. Fun. Check out a few of the photos from tonight.

Handling class tomorrow - obedience Thursday and then show time. So much to do...

Tuesday
May202008

Much to Do in Havanese Living

Our little Miss Abs is a gal in waiting. She hates waiting. Oh, she waits for a treat even if she is the last one in the pack but if handling class is too large - well it's boring so her mind works at ways to either tune out or mix it up. If she can't play with the Dobie or any other dog close by, well then she lays down and tunes out. We are working on getting her distracted and focused on her handler - daddy so she doesn't get bored. She's an adventurous gal and if life is not exciting - well it's B-O-R-I-N-G! Her breeder tells me we just make life too fun for her. ROFL

Well, we have a busy week. We had Linda with her Havanese over last night and we almost had Remy over for a quick visit but he had company come in. We also almost had Benny over from Risa's last litter but we are way too busy this week with shows coming up - it almost makes your head spin.

Let's see, we have handling class tonight and tomorrow night. Obedience on Thursday. Friday, Saturday and Sunday we have a show with the Miss Abs and Yvonne comes with Lola.

I have the finals for 'Dancing' and 'Idol' to cover. Who sleeps? Plants to cover in this cold. A pool salt cleaner that isn't working so at this rate no swimming yet - hahaha Then we get to do it all again next week.

Yesterday, Miss Abs and Fiona got into BIG trouble. Oh, it's funny but can't let them know that. I had planted some plants in my pots and left a half filled dirt plastic pot big enough to look good but not too big that a dawg couldn't carry it around spilling dirt all over the place from outside to in. The gals were delighted as if they had found a pot of gold and ran for their little playhouse to hide and investigate this find but daddy caught them and took it away. Oh - the things dogs can get into.

We also heard that Zack is fitting in well and is even getting Coco to eat faster than her usual as Zack thinks its all his, I imagine. Can't wait to hear all about their adventures. It's nice!

More later...

Monday
May192008

Brr It's a Havanese Dog Day

It's cold. It's a holiday here in Canada and the Havanese don't even want to go out. What's mother nature trying to tell us?

Well, take advantage of it and train the dogs - making it a fun game then curl up on the couch and pretend the world doesn't exist. HA - Then come back to the land of the living TOMORROW.

We are off to cover the plants - do a run like hell game with the dogs and curl up with a blanket in front of the TV.

Well, 4 days till dog shows and we have handling, obedience and much to do even for this person here who isn't showing. I am the fluff and dry and make boo-ti-full lady.

More tomorrow!

Sunday
May182008

Miss Abs & the Woodruff Bed Shimmy

Catch our Miss Abs playing in her Woodruff bed. We are not in the habit of extolling the virtues of anything for our dawgs unless we really like it - or more like - they really like it. Well, this one is a hit!

Sunday
May182008

Creative Havanese Dog Showing

We are going to start a new trend in dog showing - the 2 legged kind. We think Miss Fiona would be a true star on 2 legs. Can you hear her - daddy - daddy - daddy - please can I go for a walk - NOW!

Miss Fiona tends to walk across an entire room on her back legs. It reminds you that they were once amazing comical circus dogs and you can see why. Some of them are a bit more - look at me - look at me - like Miss Fiona is - ALWAYS! But they are agile, quick to get new commands and certainly believe in having fun. If the world does not have fun in it for Miss Fiona and the Miss Abs - well they create it and I rather enjoy that!. It's an infectious attitude that we could all use.

Miss Sassy has been staying with us till Coach recovers from his snip/snip. She goes back home today.

Taking a look at her in this photo, you could never tell she had black feet and I mean BLACK feet from romping at Yvonne's. They love it there but oh my - muddy city with the rain. I let it dry. Today I sprayed it with waterless bath. I took a wipe to get the dirt that remained in and blow dried it spraying a tad more of waterless bath. Does her feet look black today? HINT: If you let the mud dry instead of washing the feet right away, it actually is EASIER to clean.

We really enjoyed the Sass staying here and we believe she had a grand time. She's a major bed snuggler and kisser. Ah but she then gets to see that Coachie guy and all will be right in the world then - back from holidays to her home. She's just had a vacation doggie style. hahaha

More later. Rain is coming. Abs is showing this Friday. Training - training training and then an infusion of fun - we hope.

Saturday
May172008

Hanging out at Yvonnes

We went on a road trip today. We had originally thought we were going overnight then rain was forecast and then Sunday and - well we made the trek in and rain it did with a smattering of sun and all the way home - sun, sun, sun - what was that about? Did it rain in Toronto?

You can click on the photos to see a larger view.

We were hanging out at Yvonne's today and it rained - was muddy and all that mud found its way on to the dogs and on to our laps. I actually think the Miss Abs had black feet not apricot.

I went garden shopping so tomorrow the dawgs get to help Dennis and I plant them after Sassy goes back home. I have to get her back to clean. hehehe - actually letting her air dry - she doesn't look bad at all and it was only the feet but we will freshen her up so she can look oh so boo-ti-full!

The crew ran around like banshees. It's dog heaven at Yvonne and Alex's place. Sure ours is too but they have the room to run and boy did they run their hearts out and Abs was the leader of the pack in running the most. Sassy seems to be the fastest.

Kat - well he LOVES that he is surrounded by so many beautiful girl Havanese.

Here's a few of them - an array of colours - just hanging out. From the back is Yvonne's Downsey, John & Cheryl's Sassy and our Fiona from Yvonne.

The crew really loves this trip and once they got into the car, they KNEW where they were going and even Sassy has been there. But as they say - nothing like returning home to chill, sleep a dead sleep and look forward to another day of fun TOMORROW. It's a dog day you know!!

Tomorrow we practice for our upcoming shows with Miss Abs, plant, veg, play and maybe wash a few dogs. We shall see.

PS: heard that Ramona's Zack is enjoying his surroundings. That makes me smile with a warm heart.

More news tomorrow and watch for photos.

Saturday
May172008

Travelin' Havanese

Well, we are off to Yvonne's house for the day and will be back later tonight with lots of photos etc

It's yucky raining out. Life is a dawgs life and mommy saves time NOT grooming.

More tonight after the day unfolds.

Hmm busy next week too as we have shows starting next Friday - now Abs - practice gal!

Friday
May162008

Zack's New Home, Nails & Life

As you can see, Nathan is outside cutting Wasabi's nails. If you look at Zack and Sassy - you will notice that Wasabi finally needs a bath. But rain is coming so it will wait. hahahahaha Sassy got a bath this morning and looked at me a tad cross-eyed but otherwise behaved as the Sassy Lassy that she is.

If you click on the photo, you can see Fiona - and what a colour mass she is these days.

She seems to have a lot of grey and apricot coming in. It was mostly cream. The ever changing one.

Here's the Miss Abs out on the deck, in the sun just roughin' it in our bed we got from Woodruff. The dawgs all LOVE this bed. They roll around and do all kinds of crazy things in it but all of them get in the act except the larger canines (retrievers)

Zack's gone to his new home today. We are excited for him - sad as we will miss the guy but happy he will have more one on one time. We look forward to seeing photos.

We were supposed to be off to our friends house tomorrow but they are calling for rain so it may not happen till Sunday. That means I may be able to sleep in - exercise late and get ready for 2 weeks in a row of doggie shows with the Miss Abs.

It's called - practice - practice - practice.

Well, work is crazy so I must get stuff done - more later. We are hoping Coach survived his snip/snip and just know Sassy is doing great. She's already found our bed.

Thursday
May152008

Training Your Havanese & Having Fun

In handling class, we often have to resort to any method to get where we want to go. hahahaha

Well, not really but doesn't Nathan look like he is praying for better times? He actually had a good class last night other than Abs losing interest. It's just too late for her after a full day of playing with the crew and she does play hard.

Tonight, Zack gets his stitches snipped, gets bathed and goes to class with his new owner. I am also going to take him through the paces before he goes and may stay home just so I am not a distraction. Coach's dad John knows I can be...although I do try not to but hey that boisterous happy upbeat voice sure gets them focused on you.

Zack no longer gets up at the crack of dawn with me but stays in bed snoozing till Nathan gets up. Now, Shoshi, Katsuro, Abs and Fiona join me lately consistently.

Check out a few of the photos from handling class last night. Hopefully, if you are interested in showing your dog and haven't taken the plunge, this will inspire you to realize - you too can do it and have fun doing it as well! Fun is the key!


Wednesday
May142008

Havanese Need Friendships

Well, I thought I would put hair ties on the duo and it lasted - oh about 5 seconds. Between Fiona scrunching her head into anything to get it off and Miss Abs playing rambunctious - well it was short lived. We will try again.

There's a lot of theory about the evolution of play, physical, social, cognitive development of the brain. In play, your Havanese learns social etiquette, to play fairly, to meet and greet properly, to respect the space of someone that wants their space, and it trains them for the unexpected such as another dog being uncomfortable and perhaps snapping or growling. Often its not a sign of aggression when a dog barks or snaps but rather - I am uncomfortable - how will I deal.

Play is so very important. It's a very complex serious activity with your Havanese. It could even be the foundation for your dawgs moral decisions. Consider play dates with positive resources. It will help your dog be a better well rounded and balanced Havanese.

Let's talk about Miss Abs. When we first got her, we were going through not socializing until we had all our shots and although she has a built in group to learn from, it's different when the dogs are various sizes and they don't get to know them. On her first handling class, she laid on the floor and said forget about this. She had already gone through an obedience class so one would have thought - why now - she's too old for this but not really. Much happens in that first year that lays the base for the rest. One would assume she was skittish and not ready for such an event but instead of saying - poor thing - we started taking her to Petsmart and to Home Depot daily in that next week. It made a HUGE difference. She met and greeted many dogs and although she didn't play with them, it was a controlled environment and got her slowly conditioned to being close to dogs and people of all sizes.

Last night as she has done since her first week in handling class where she laid down in revolt or was that uncomfortability, she wags her tail - greets the Great Dane, all dogs even if they snap. She's patient with all and doesn't back off but doesn't make a dog that is uneasy as it hasn't been socialized sufficiently uncomfie. She has become balanced but that came with work of daily exposing her. That's not to say that something can't spook her in the future but as far as she is concerned, she has found her comfortability with people be it kids or adults and with dogs of various sizes - friendly and unfriendly.

The point of all this is to realize that slow conditioning does help and play doesn't have to be running around but even practicing walking near another dog can help them gain their confidence. Everything you do counts. Just don't get frustrated if it doesn't work right out of the gate. It didn't for Miss Abs. They feed off your emotion so it is important to keep a level head and focus on the end result vs. the moments that frustrate you. Any of you that have had human kids know all the way through teenage years and then some you can get frustrated but most of your job is done after that first year with a dog that you have invested training, socializing and reinforcing in. They will be that dog you always wanted as they are what you put into them.

Too often a dog will bark when they are not sure of their environment. Zack did this when we went to Rens last week and to Home Depot but soon realized after saying 'no bark' firmly that there really wasn't anything to be concerned about. He soon was saying hi to human and canines alike till we came across an aggressive dog and instead of scaring him, I walked the other way - not in a rush but in a deliberate distraction. It's important when your dog is young to not instill fear in them and to redirect when 'you' read the body of another dog. When they arrive at a place where they can read and feel comfort with their coping skills - well then you can use that dog to calm others - like the Miss Abs seems to do with others.

Our Havanese learn to read other dogs in different time frames. Katsuro was almost 9 months till he could totally tell what another dog was saying. Abs is 6 months and can tell. It's not a sign of intelligence. Think of it as similar to a human trait and if you had 'NO words' and had to read body language - some of us would pick up on it fast and others wouldn't be sure what was being said. All that matters at the end of the day is they figure it out and learn coping skills when things are not the way they desire. This comes with maturity and you being tuned into them.

Tuesday
May132008

Fun at Handling Class

Daddy was at handling class with the Miss Abs and it was her first time in grass. Usually it is done inside but outside it was mosquitoes and all.

Tomorrow night we get to do it all again but this class will be inside. It's not as fun as this one but...

Check out a few of the photos from tonight's class.

That mommy - always taking photos. One day - with fine equipment she intends on doing it creatively but until then - you get what you get.

Tuesday
May132008

Bath & Handling Class Tonight

Well, I haven't had a bath since the 27th of last month when I did a show and due to 3 baths in one weekend, Mommy believes in giving her and me a break. I am not all that dirty. Mommy is just a tad ridiculous about the coat. Today she is going to try a new shampoo on Fiona and if it works good, she will give it a try on me.

Last night Mommy did training with Zack. Mommy thinks Daddy did it with the rest of the crew minus heeling. He also took Zack over to Home depot. Hrmmmf I didn't go but I do get to go to handling class tonight. I can't wait. One more week and we will be doing the classes outside.

When you have multiple dogs, its good to have one on one time too with each.

Well both Fiona and Abs had a bath today. We were trying new stuff on them to see what works with their hair the best.

Abs is going to handling soon. Let's hope she really does well this week. Here you can see her tail at half mast after her bath. One would think that she didn't just adore the bath. ROFL - Okay - they don't but she's rather used to it and lets me blow dry her face thoroughly. Fiona is still at the point of - anywhere but the face mom so we still do it - just don't completely dry it.

The point is - keep at this washing/grooming business and it DOES get easier.

Monday
May122008

Changing Havanese Habits

If you live in a cold climate and are rather allergic to the cold or shovelling yourself, you may have found your dogs going on your deck vs. the place you want them to. We dig paths etc but still if it is raining too hard or its bitter cold, like humans, they don't want to go out. They go to the first place and try to get back in.

Now that the weather is getting warmer, its time to correct them to go to the area you want. Carry them at first especially if their bladders are about to burst after a long night and tell then to 'get busy' and praise. Keep doing it and then try to just let them get there on their own even with you going out. If they do make it to that area - wow praise and keep at it to make sure it wasn't a one day thing. If they fail to get it, start again and keep at it. They will.

This is the Fiona running down the stairs for her morning - I got to get outside, mommy.

We have a busy week. Today - if weather allows, mommy is going to wash Abs with a new product to see how it feels on her. Zach gets washed on Friday when he goes to his new home. The rest will come here and there.

We have handling Tuesday and Wednesday night. We have obedience on Thursday and a long weekend that I don't get as I work for an American company. Then we have shows coming up soon. Stack, stack, stack and heel.

Looks like rain today..sigh...and Alex is coming to visit. How cool is that and Katsuro is waiting at the door - since last night, I might add.

More later.>>

Thursday
May082008

Handling, Obedience and Hav Snip - Snip

Chico now has a new home (goes in a bit over a week) with another Havanese who happens to be our Fiona's sister. Coco - his new pack mate sibling stayed here for a bit till she went to Yvonne's. It was so much fun.

This morning is going to be tough as Chico - now known as Zack is going in to be neutered before he goes to his new home. We are using his new name and seems to get it but not totally yet. We have another week to reinforce it.

Zack's new human mom will be coming to his obedience class tonight and he will stay home to play recovery with our sons. Then he gets to go to another class with us a week Thursday. We get to see Coach too tonight - yeah!

Here's how last night went.

Abs Says: Just another handling class with daddy and mommy came and took photos. This one isn't as helpful as the night before where you get more tips and people focus on what you are doing vs. talking but it is practice and we need to do that at this point a couple of times a day.

Miss Abs still gets bored and I can see why here - takes too long to get to you but all of it is good conditioning.

Miss Abs needs a serious shampoo but we are waiting. Between rain and new products coming to try - timing hasn't been right. Miss Abs is still a test case in progress. This way by Orangeville, she will be stylin! A gal has to look good - you know!

Here Miss Abs was doing her usual - waiting her turn (takes too long here and she gets way bored) but patience or learning it is a good thing.

We had a Boston Terrier (well 2 in class) but although Miss Abs kept trying to be nice to one of them, it really was too nervous and kept lashing out at her. I truly believe Abs is the most balanced puppy dog I know as she reacts properly - backs off a bit but doesn't retreat and tries again given time and finally after the 4th time (all of this spaced out) she gave up. The dog needs more meet and greet practice. Miss Abs gave him a start and didn't seem to mind helping her out. She seems to be a calming influence in other dogs and we see it when dogs come to our home. The dog was better - just not there yet. I imagine next week she may be. That's quite nice, imho.

Well, since Miss Abs decided to eat daddy's pants while she walked, we will be practicing heeling this week and more stacking. Got to get her excited about holding that tail up always and stacking with no fuss, no muss. No treats unless she is perfect now - you hear daddy?

Well, more later and we will fill you in on Zack after we pick him up.

See you tonight, John, Coach and Ramona!

Wednesday
May072008

Handling Havanese & Much More

Our plan last night was to slow condition Fiona to the show handling class environment but we thought - is this too early? Abigail has a show to get ready for. How will Nathan negotiate both? Will Fiona react like she did on her walk - hesitant and unhappy?

Well, she was a tad hesitant with a whippet snapping air at her saying - not so close and all the whippet wanted was to play. So did Fiona but she was unsure how to handle such an unusual thing. But it all went well. She did say hello to a few more dogs not backing away.

She walked tail high the entire time. Pay attention - Miss Abs - you can do it too. She was a nightmare on the table but the instructor showed Nathan he was fussing too much and she was also walking crooked but that too was Nathan paying attention to her.

The instructor took Fiona, placed her front paws solidly on the table at an angle then put her back legs in place all in one full swoop and she stayed. It seems less fussing and more deliberate expectations helps them to rise to the occasion.

Then he asked Nathan to just walk and yes be aware where she is when you are turning but otherwise, just walk and she walked straight then. I found this interesting from a training perspective as the more you simply just expect and act as if they will rise to the occasion, the better they do. Fiona was great and even cried to get back out there with Nathan when it was Abigail's turn. I have never heard her cry for anything. She's starting to make that transition to daddy does 'this' with me and this is fun and rewarding. It's the same road Miss Abs went down.

Abigail needs a bit more work at being animated at the judge and seemed to be more distracted as Fiona was there but maybe the distractions are good for her so she learns to ignore. Her tail was half mast half the time and up all the way the other. The table doesn't seem to bother her but she also needs that deliberate, front paws in position, then back in place in one full swoop action. The instructor seemed really good at it. Miss Abigail has a tremendous bounce but still has not managed to find the excitement yet. She would rather play with the dogs than prance around the ring where Fiona seemed to like it. I think the difference there is Fiona is so highly treat motivated that its easy to find her button to push where Abs - although food motivated - needs to have more excitement in your voice to get her up for it otherwise she is bored silly by the stuff. Still, it seemed both do well with all the noise, mommy sitting there and all the dogs especially the 2 snorting ones that were not into the walk just yet and wanted to jump instead. That's a lot to get used to.

Now, it is EASY for me to sit on the sidelines and watch instead of doing and say - you have to do this than actually doing it but Nathan is falling into the groove of getting saturated with all this info and then practicing. The better he gets, the better Miss Abs gets and that is what it is all about.

Miss Abigail gets to go to handling tonight without Fiona as she will be in 2 shows this month. That means we need to focus on her but it was great to get Fiona into this to see her reaction and we will do it again next week. I just wish there were more handling classes in this area.

Well, the pool is going to get opened this week. It's going to be fun to educate the little ones about it.

Chico is slated to get the 'snip-snip' tomorrow so no classes for him this week. Sebastian has already been fixed and puppy cut and I wonder how Remy is doing these days. I miss the puppies but this show focus is fun too.

More later...from the gal with hardly any sleep but did do 4am exercise again.

Tuesday
May062008

Handling Class with the 2 Havanese

Fiona went to handling class with Abigail and the human daddy. Stay tuned tomorrow to hear how she did her very first time. Plus see how Abs was about sharing all this one on one time.

Tuesday
May062008

Early morning antics at Talemakers. Whitney, our old lady retriever had a bath and now its Terra's turn when I have the energy.

We have a busy day. The car died so human daddy has to go pick that up today. We have handling classes with Fiona and Abigail. Human daddy has a business meeting. We have to empty a pool house as the pool people are coming this week. We have training to do with Chico, Abs and Fiona and the rest of the crew.

I also have a late night with 'Dancing With the Stars' results and 'Idol' and yep I made that 4am wake up to do a killer plyo. Sleep was not good so maybe a nap today if work is not too much.

Remind me not to take a siesta from exercise. It's awful finding the energy to get back into it but I must. I look at that reflection in teh window while exercising and validate all that sweat and exhaustion that comes. I need to figure out how to get the dogs to exercise at the same time. Ideas - anyone?

Fiona, Abs and Katsuro got up with me. They loved the fan blowing on them while I exercised. I practiced commands with them as you can if you do not have the chunk of time to train them. It's best that way as you incorporate training into real life and end up reinforcing. Remember NO FREE TREATS - make them work for it even with a sit or a down or a by me - anything but don't give it away for free. You will end up being happier with the results and they will enjoy it as well.

More later as the day goes on.>>